Against superstition

[adam kondor]

I sense musicians are especially receptive to irrational, mystical, "unscientific" thought...

Are YOU safe from 'otherworldly' influences? :)

.

[adam kondor]

"Science is the poetry of reality"

[adam kondor]

"
[Reason] is a precious but also a fragile thing which can be corroded by apparently harmless irrationality.
"

[J.C. Combs]

I'm highly rational and logical. Sure I research UFOs and believe a lot of conspiracy theories, but 90% of the world believes there is a man in the clouds who rules the universe. So where does that place me?? ;)

[Steve Chandler]

It's obvious to me that if science cannot explain what 95% of the mass of the universe (dark matter, dark energy) is then it seems stupid to believe that science has all the answers. That doesn't mean that I subscribe to the notion of a God of the Gaps (God exists in what science cannot yet explain). I would agree that I've seen no evidence in others that a deity provides any benefits greater than what could be explained by social conformity. But I have had experiences of my own which defy pure logic. Therefore I am loath to judge the beliefs of others except where I can observe them to be causing damage.

There are many who would claim the sky is falling when in reality the opposite is true. Society changes slowly, yet the changes in human society over the past 100 years are significant. A century ago women couldn't vote in the USA and African/Americans were routinely subjugated almost everywhere. Today we have an African/American President and women helped elect him. Whatever we may think of Obama's politics, the fact that a Black man was elected to the nation's highest office is a matter worthy of celebration.

Now we see religion in the sights of social critics. Bill Maher's movie Religulous and the likes of Richard Dawkins being just a few examples. A century from now religion may have a very different role in society than it has today. If there's a problem it is that science cannot provide a framework for social interaction that religion does. We know that anarchy doesn't work as a governmental structure, society would benefit from something in the way of norms to direct human interactions that goes beyond civil law. For example current law allows abortion on demand. My personal belief is that prohibition of abortion simply didn't work, but that doesn't mean that I view abortion as a positive aspect in life. It is the termination of a potential human life and as such will not have a positive role in the lives of those involved in such a situation (except possibly as a learning experience). In other words, there should be the emotion we call guilt felt because we should value even potential human lives. Wouldn't science simply celebrate the convenience of being able to control what we do with our bodies regardless of its societal impact?

In general I agree with much of what Dawkins says. It's obvious that religion has had a damaging effect on society to this point. In some aspects it has outlived its usefulness as a societal control mechanism when it can be misinterpreted to support the notion of hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings to make a political statement. It can also be said to have outlived its usefulness when it encourages families to teach their children the stories of the faith despite the fact that science contradicts those teachings (regarding the creation of the universe and evolution). The good news is that many more people are questioning religious teachings now than at any time I can remember. But science doesn't replace the social comfort and community that religion provides and human society craves.

[Lee Noyes]

Sheesh...

Imagine a civilisation that didn't tell its children stories, only the 'truth'.

What kind of childhood did Dawkins have? He strikes me as the quintessential fundamentalist.

[Jeff Harrington]

Haha.. thanks Lee! Yeah preaching can take many forms. And getting people to think 'your' way or write music 'your' way is an exercise in futility.

Lee Noyes said:

Sheesh...

Imagine a civilisation that didn't tell its children stories, only the 'truth'.

What kind of childhood did Dawkins have? He strikes me as the quintessential fundamentalist.

[J.C. Combs]

"It's obvious to me that if science cannot explain what 95% of the mass of the universe (dark matter, dark energy) is then it seems stupid to believe that science has all the answers" - Steve

Yet science has more answers than anything of a religious nature. Does it have to be all or nothing?

outlived its usefulness as a societal control mechanism when it can be misinterpreted to support the notion of hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings to make a political statement. Steve

Lets be fair. What about all the people the Christians have killed? How about the Spanish Inquisition? I think religion lost its purpose about hmmm, a minute after it was created.

[Lee Noyes]

Ken Palmer said:

I don't believe that musicians are necessarily receptive to irrational, mystical, "unscientific" thought. "
Safe from 'otherworldly' influences? I think that depends entirely on what we believe about ourselves. If one believes that he created himself the world may come across as a dangerous place to be. If he believes that a life force animates, breathes, speaks, thinks, creates etc. in him, as him and through him then he is more likely to be delivered from the fears and anxieties associated with blatant egocentricity. Life without the melding of science and spirituality is a colorless existence.

Amen to this!
l i f

[adam kondor]

Well, actually, children are very much sensitive to lying. I bet, there is a chance that it'd be a better world...


Lee Noyes said:

Sheesh...

Imagine a civilisation that didn't tell its children stories, only the 'truth'.

[Steve Chandler]

Hi Greg and Lee,

I'm also a prove it to me kind of guy, but science hasn't explained all there is to explain. I know people who have had near death experiences (what one of them referred to as her death experience). I find the attempts by science to debunk these as rather pitiful attempts to rain on the parade. In researching the history of the Bible I've pretty much come to the conclusion it's a work of fiction, but I'm inclined to believe there is something to spiritual belief for a number of reasons, including personal experience and the experiences related to me by others.

For example I saw a program on either the Discovery or Science Channel about a woman who underwent an operation to remove blockages from the arteries to her lungs. They had to stop her heart and cool her body to do the operation. They taped her eyes shut and put earphones the had some kind of noise playing. Once she was flat lined (both brain and heart activity stopped) they cut her open. After the operation she was able to remember the songs played by a boom box in the operating room (Hotel California being one), quote the surgeons and accurately describe the implements they used. Until science can explain how she acquired those memories while having her eyes taped shut, earphones on playing noise and no measurable brain activity I'll have to believe there's something to spirituality.

One tenet of current spiritual thought is that what we seek we find, what we give the world is what comes back. Gandhi said that, "we should be the change we wish to see in the world." If you see the world as unloving, intolerant, and judgmental then you should be more loving, more tolerant and less judgmental. People react to the energy they perceive from you. If you come on as angry, you will elicit anger in others. If you light up the room as fun loving then others will be fun around you. In general I find this way of thinking about life really works.

As for melding science and spirituality that's an ever changing landscape. Science believes one thing one day (black holes are unchanging collectors of matter) and something else the next ("Black holes aren't black" - Stephen Hawking). Some aspects of science have stood the test of time (evolution), but Newtonian physics lasted centuries until Einstein came along. Admittedly science has been bolstered by modern technology and advances are coming faster than ever. Perhaps science will find that there may be something to spirituality.

Greg Hooper said:

Whereas I think 'How could you accept something as thin as spirituality instead of the wonder of Science?'
lol
I just think these things are personality based - Some of my closest friends are deeply religious, but I'm as hardcore a materialist as Dawkins. I don't think any of us are feeling any more or less imbued with meaning. And I like the community aspect of a lot of religions a lot


Lee Noyes said:

Ken Palmer said:

I don't believe that musicians are necessarily receptive to irrational, mystical, "unscientific" thought. "
Safe from 'otherworldly' influences? I think that depends entirely on what we believe about ourselves. If one believes that he created himself the world may come across as a dangerous place to be. If he believes that a life force animates, breathes, speaks, thinks, creates etc. in him, as him and through him then he is more likely to be delivered from the fears and anxieties associated with blatant egocentricity. Life without the melding of science and spirituality is a colorless existence.

Amen to this!
l i f

[Paul H. Muller]

Well... It might be argued that WWI and WWII killed as many as the Christians have in the last 2000 years. And the wars of the 20th century were fought for political and not religious reasons. Perhaps worse is in the future, given the nuclear world we now live in. Christianity - an institution comprised of flawed humans - is not perfect. But my view is that rationalism is capable of far worse.


J.C. Combs said:

"It's obvious to me that if science cannot explain what 95% of the mass of the universe (dark matter, dark energy) is then it seems stupid to believe that science has all the answers" - Steve

Yet science has more answers than anything of a religious nature. Does it have to be all or nothing?

outlived its usefulness as a societal control mechanism when it can be misinterpreted to support the notion of hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings to make a political statement. Steve

Lets be fair. What about all the people the Christians have killed? How about the Spanish Inquisition? I think religion lost its purpose about hmmm, a minute after it was created.

[Jeff Harrington]

The tendency for rationalists to view human beings as machines is really scary. See Norbert Weiner's writings, "The Human Use of Human Beings". Also, there's the whole genome-enhancing process, (super-eugenics) that science is about to embark on.

We have no control over science. And science/knowledge while one of our greatest inventions, is also one of our greatest threats to humanity. Science has little or no place for wisdom - and it'll take wisdom to control science. And that's one thing we ain't got much right now.

Scientists, have recently begun experiments, which they admit themselves had a very very remote chance of destroying a significant chunk of our own galaxy. (The mini-black holes that could arise from the Cern? experiments). Now who gave them permission to do that?

It'll only get worse, I fear. But it is inevitable.

Paul H. Muller said:

Well... It might be argued that WWI and WWII killed as many as the Christians have in the last 2000 years. And the wars of the 20th century were fought for political and not religious reasons. Perhaps worse is in the future, given the nuclear world we now live in. Christianity - an institution comprised of flawed humans - is not perfect. But my view is that rationalism is capable of far worse. J.C. Combs said:

"It's obvious to me that if science cannot explain what 95% of the mass of the universe (dark matter, dark energy) is then it seems stupid to believe that science has all the answers" - Steve

Yet science has more answers than anything of a religious nature. Does it have to be all or nothing?

outlived its usefulness as a societal control mechanism when it can be misinterpreted to support the notion of hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings to make a political statement. Steve

Lets be fair. What about all the people the Christians have killed? How about the Spanish Inquisition? I think religion lost its purpose about hmmm, a minute after it was created.