Avant Beatles?

[J.C. Combs]

I read that McCartney plans to release a funky new-old tune and mentions interesting inspiration for the project at the time it was recorded.

"McCartney, usually regarded as the most melodically minded Beatle, told the BBC he had a long-standing interest in avant-garde music. He said "Carnival of Light" was inspired by experimental composers John Cage and Karlheinz Stockhausen."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNC9hL9OQeHRIuE6v...

[James Ross]

I'm hoping to hear this track, but I'm sure there's a reason why it hasn't been released. You don't withold meat from the music-buying masses. Of course, the music-buying masses are disappearing, so ... It's an attention-getter, at any rate.

[Jeff Harrington]

Curious after that horrible choral piece that he barely wrote. I'm thinking tho that this is just for the artsy-fartsy props...

[Joshua Parmenter]

Keep in mind - Stockhausen is on the cover of Sgt. Pepper at Paul and John's insistence. And while Paul didn't contribute to Revolution 9 directly (it was put together by John, Yoko and Ringo), it certainly shows influence from the European avant-garde of the 50s and 60s. And let's face it, if another Revolution 9 was what turned up, would the 21st century living Beatles want to have it released? I'd love to hear it, but how many would? That material (and the REALLY experimental stuff that was happening during the recording of the White Album) can be out there.

[John "Sparky" Prokop]

One of the few Beatles "Holy Grails", although when I told my wife about this (she is a major Beatle collector, mind you), her eyes rolled "good grief" style. "Carnival" was probably stored in Macca's basement for a very long time collecting dust. This is one of the few items that has not yet been bootlegged, but the one item that is still awaiting any sort of bootleg release is a twenty-seven minute recording of Helter Skelter. That and a second take of "Twist and Shout" from the famous 2/11/63 recording session.

[Daniel Forró]

I don't think it can be interesting stuff at all, maybe just some free impro, jam session to relax between recording sessions... It's possible to record four hours of such sound carpets in four hours. What we can expect from pop musicians without enough theoretical knowledge and practical experience with vanguard music? Only some wannabe stuff, maybe a result of their rather snobish dream to enter different spheres of high academic art? Even my two years old daughter can create very modern sounding textures on piano when she starts to jump on it, playing clusters, random notes etc. (Everybody knows story behind Scarlatti's Cat Fugue). Beatles didn't need to enter this music world, they were good in what they did, that means pop songs. Trips outside from this limited material couldn't be good, because they were limited as composers and performers. Of course that means nothing wrong. To be limited means also to be specialist in something. They tried to learn new things (Indian ragas, old English vaudeville music, ...) and use it in their music, like a small innovations, but generally such style synthesis was not so successful (again, because of lack of compositional craftsmanship). So I see this attempt just as another bubble and trick to get attraction again and maybe some money if he will find enough people willing to pay for it (times are difficult now, he must pay for gas...)

Daniel Forro

[David Beardsley]

Looks like they gave this a lot of thought:

During a recording session at Abbey Road Studios, Mr. McCartney said, he asked the other Beatles to “just wander round all of the stuff and bang it, shout, play it.”

- from todays NY Times

[Jeff Harrington]

Ha! Consider it d-u-n done! Now I think I'll sit back and laugh at it all!

;)

Where's that lost track of yours man?

Joseph Benzola said:

Dear Jeff Harrington III, esq.

Please throw me off this new music site which is dedicated to theoretical composers who know their craft and not to " just some free impro, jam session to relax between recording sessions." Please contact Apple Records and tell them to stop selling Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, and Magical Mystery Tour which contain moments of non-theoretical experimental music which was created in a probable drug haze. Please inform Braxton, Lewis, Mitchell, and Taylor that they are Black and that they should not be delving into the Euro/American Vanguard tradition. While your at it, please let Phil Glass, Corey Dargel, and others continue to write Pop...I mean art songs that are really inane but are praised because of their classical/academic training. If you can, please inform the new complexity, downtown music scene to continue aping King Crimson and Henry Cow and taking those influences and making them really boring. Also, let Glenn Branca know that he is a rock musician and that Rhys Chatham's Guitar Trio is a minimalist masterwork of the late 20th century. Johnny Ramone or Chetah Chrome never could have composed such a brilliant and seminal work. One more thing, please list a set of rules and commandments for proper musical construction. Thanks.



Daniel Forró said:

I don't think it can be interesting stuff at all, maybe just some free impro, jam session to relax between recording sessions... It's possible to record four hours of such sound carpets in four hours. What we can expect from pop musicians without enough theoretical knowledge and practical experience with vanguard music? Only some wannabe stuff, maybe a result of their rather snobish dream to enter different spheres of high academic art? Even my two years old daughter can create very modern sounding textures on piano when she starts to jump on it, playing clusters, random notes etc. (Everybody knows story behind Scarlatti's Cat Fugue). Beatles didn't need to enter this music world, they were good in what they did, that means pop songs. Trips outside from this limited material couldn't be good, because they were limited as composers and performers. Of course that means nothing wrong. To be limited means also to be specialist in something. They tried to learn new things (Indian ragas, old English vaudeville music, ...) and use it in their music, like a small innovations, but generally such style synthesis was not so successful (again, because of lack of compositional craftsmanship). So I see this attempt just as another bubble and trick to get attraction again and maybe some money if he will find enough people willing to pay for it (times are difficult now, he must pay for gas...)

Daniel Forro

[J.C. Combs]

I'm hoping the label thought it was too out there. McCartney says its time to release it, which makes it sound as if the work was ahead of its time. I'm definitely excited to hear it. McCartney has me worked up with his description of the recording. If only he would take it to heart for his classical music.

[XLR]

Considering the Beatles connected to anything avant-garde makes me think of Stu Sutcliffe, and how it would have been interesting, given his artistic interests, if he had been in the group when they got to their work-in-the-recording-studio-only phase. Of course Stu would have had to have lived to have that happen [awkward laugh here], but none the less it hits me as an interesting "what could have been".

[Johnny & Faith]

Heck yeah. I'd love to hear Rubber Soul or Sgt. Pepper bearing Stu's influence. He might have been their Syd Barrett or Keith Reid or Robert Hunter, or Brian Jones . . .

XLR said:

Considering the Beatles connected to anything avant-garde makes me think of Stu Sutcliffe, and how it would have been interesting, given his artistic interests, if he had been in the group when they got to their work-in-the-recording-studio-only phase. Of course Stu would have had to have lived to have that happen [awkward laugh here], but none the less it hits me as an interesting "what could have been".

[John "Sparky" Prokop]

Johnny & Faith said:

Heck yeah. I'd love to hear Rubber Soul or Sgt. Pepper bearing Stu's influence. He might have been their Syd Barrett or Keith Reid or Robert Hunter, or Brian Jones . . .

XLR said:

Considering the Beatles connected to anything avant-garde makes me think of Stu Sutcliffe, and how it would have been interesting, given his artistic interests, if he had been in the group when they got to their work-in-the-recording-studio-only phase. Of course Stu would have had to have lived to have that happen [awkward laugh here], but none the less it hits me as an interesting "what could have been".

At least one thing we can be grateful for is the fact that Pete Best was dumped for the far superior Ringo. Have you heard some of the early, early material, especially the Decca audition tapes (captured for posterity in the first Anthology collection)? Pete's drumming was awful, constantly thumping the bass drum on every beat, sounding like he was using chopsticks for drumsticks, and just being very inconsistant throughout (check out his playing on an early take of "Love Me Do"). My wife and I always discuss this: Could you imagine Best doing, say, "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "Long Tall Sally" (especially with Richie's flip-out at the end) or "She Loves You"? No bloody way!

[XLR]

William Houston said, "Hey Paul! Why don't you join this site and release it here?"

You know, heh, I think that would be the ultimate in artistic coolness.

I ran into a guy on a recording forum who I was convinced for a short time was McCartney [embarrassed shrug]. He had recorded a vocal piece and posted it there... the voice, the arrangement, particular things about the feel of the instrumental parts, even his manner in responding to thread comments hit me as something McCartney could have done if he was really inspired and trying to break out of his celebrity confines.