Comments/Critiques/Rants about My String Quartet #5

[Jeff Harrington]

I just deleted Adam's last comment on my blog, which was a quote from Dennis Bathory-Kitsz about how these forums have no real criticism, but mere back-slapping. Rather than continue the passive/aggressive circus that my blog has become since a few folks attempted to 'intervene' in my continuing use of tonality, I've decided to invite comments and criticisms about the piece here, in a public setting. I don't want my announcement, on my blog, to be a forum for ad generis critiques of my style(s). It is disrespectful of the great performers and it's disrespectful to me.

Instead, let's talk about it here. Maybe a little steam needs to be let out. But please, critique the piece and not me! FWIW, and as I posted on my blog, when I announced the piece in 2001 on rec.music.compose, similar fireworks occurred. Just for fun here they are. Now, just for the record, I was being a little bit snide in my response, because the critic, orangie, had been attacking me for months and was frankly a little bit weird.

Announcement from 2001 for Tetra-Mnemosyne VII on rec.music.compose

For those that haven't heard the piece, it flirts with classical tonality from the 19th century from time to time and this seems to freak people out. Are these harmonic gestures week and inappropriate? Do they add anything to the piece? Do they weaken the piece? Do I integrate those harmonic gestures succesfully into the motoric processes? Do the transitions work between the different stylistic spheres? Whatever questions you can think of - go for it.

Here's the recording:

String Quartet #5 - Performed by Quatuor de Orchestre 2021 Live in ...

Here's the score:

Score to Harrington String Quartet #5

[Jeff Harrington]

Thanks for the different analyses guys... Just for a bit of perspective - here's a piece I wrote as a grad student at Tulane in 1987. It is really trying to be in the late Beethoven style. It's pure pastiche - except for the obsessive rhythms here and there. This piece and the solo violin sonata are the only pieces from my pastiche period that I haven't destroyed (or thrown in some box for storage with a stupid plan that I'll one day fix them... heh.)

Variations for String Quartet - Performed by the First Monday Ensemble

One funny story about the premiere. As the audience was leaving, I heard someone say, "Now why can't composers write music like that these days..."

That's when I knew pastiche would never ever work. Time travel is not art. ;)

[John Mackey]

Jeff Harrington said:

That's when I knew pastiche would never ever work. Time travel is not art. ;)

I love this quote.

[Steve Layton]

I've said it before: your stuff always works best when it gets away from 2/4/8 squareness; when the phrase lengths and polyphony kind of say "screw the measure and the bar line". What counts are the accents; they become crucial! When it all comes together, like in "BlueStrider", "Gygr", "DeltaBandResonator", "Tcoupitoulas Byrd Song" and most of the "TetraMnemosyne" trios, it's a potent mix. Which is the one problem I have with the recording of this new quartet. You mention its intensity, and in some ways it is intense. But there's still slightly too much 'poise' and an evenness to the perf. There's a kind of boxing dance, fake and jab that needs to show up more strongly across the board. They don't have to be heavy; more just sharp and above all *sure*. I think part of that feeling comes from the jazz/blues root elements you've absorbed, which can be a difficult thing for players without that background to feel and use intuitively.


Jeff Harrington said:

Thanks for the different analyses guys... Just for a bit of perspective - here's a piece I wrote as a grad student at Tulane in 1987. It is really trying to be in the late Beethoven style. It's pure pastiche - except for the obsessive rhythms here and there. This piece and the solo violin sonata are the only pieces from my pastiche period that I haven't destroyed (or thrown in some box for storage with a stupid plan that I'll one day fix them... heh.)

Variations for String Quartet - Performed by the First Monday Ensemble

One funny story about the premiere. As the audience was leaving, I heard someone say, "Now why can't composers write music like that these days..."

That's when I knew pastiche would never ever work. Time travel is not art. ;)

[paul bailey]

jeff,

i guess this summer self-reflection is going around. here's my two cents and i think i need to state the obvious by saying i try to stay away from critiquing my peers because i think its too easy for my own aesthetic to get in the way. but since you are enthusiastically asking for it here it goes.

i'll start out by saying that i have a hard time listening to most beethoven inspired classical music b/c the harmonies and gestures have lost the power in my ears. with that being said i think your quartet is good and up there fighting the similar battles with beethoven that terry riley and michael nyman have attempted.

so here are my notes, i'm sorry if i offend you in any way (or already have). i hope you know you have my deep respect as a composer, musician and artist and wouldn't be sharing this with you unless i felt this way. i know there is a lot of back slapping and navel gazing on the interwebs but the ability to share some time and thoughts with artists that are trying to make their way in this crazy frakked up world i think is very important.

so here are my notes... FWIW i didn't look at the score. listening to it there were no obvious problems with orchestration or performance practice.

(opening section)
your first two sections work very well, but i feel its very beethoven, but that language already seems spent for me. (i know the same thing could be said of much of my music and minimalism)

(2:45)
this is reminding me of cadenza on a night plain (riley). these parts of the piece are to me are the most successful. personally i want to hear more of this and would love to hear you geek out instead of transition to the next sustain section.

(5:10)
so far the form seems through composed with ABCD. i can tell there are some gestures that run though. but its like i'm hearing music that is scored to a film. i'm not carrying that narrative in my head. this section 'works' but i have the same gripe about the riley and nyman pieces. you all are into beethoven and chasing that dragon down the rabbit hole. i just got lost along the way (in this piece)

(9:49ish)
ok we are back to the first real statement of the ostinato melody (that i think was briefly played around 5min
how the sections are connected are not obvious
the harmonic language is fuzzy
the melodic ostinato gestures work better for me the contrapuntal sustain sections. i think they all work well but there might be too much material for one piece
the build toward the end is interesting and works, but doesn't give me an oh yeah moment of how the pieces work together

(10:36)
ok we are back to the sustain counterpoint again. this is probably where i have lost interest. i'm not quite sure where your going. and this writing isn't as strong as the other sections. its not obvious how this material fits in. also looking over the piece it seems conceptually backwards. the sustain sections are longer than the melodic ostinatos. it seem like you are giving your audience less familiar archetypes to hold on to as the piece progresses. if you really want to have a piece that has these big shifts in tone i can see swapping that ratio would be more successful. you could also have the sustain sections keep getting shorter as the piece moves on to create a rhythmic accelerando that can lift the piece to the end.

strengths
your string orchestration is 1st rate
i think many of your melodic ostinato gestures work well
the ending is striking

limitations
the form is not clear (how the sections are related are not obvious)
i think the piece could conceptually work, but it slows down harmonically and metrically as it approaches the climax

i give you lots of credit. you are playing in the deep weeds that i have never attempted. i'll write for the string quartet and play around in the beethoven world separately, but doing both at the same time is a pretty high bar that i haven't seen any (you, glass, riley, and nyman) escape unharmed.

keep fighting the good fight!

paul

[Steve Layton]

Not to toot my own horn, but this is what I'm talking about (YOU know it, but a lot of the newer folk don't), when all of those elements come together with someone who understands that dance-drive-duck-jab:

Jeff Harrington : "DeltaBandResonator" (2003), for solo piano, realized by Steve Layton


Steve Layton said:

I've said it before: your stuff always works best when it gets away from 2/4/8 squareness; when the phrase lengths and polyphony kind of say "screw the measure and the bar line". What counts are the accents; they become crucial! When it all comes together, like in "BlueStrider", "Gygr", "DeltaBandResonator", "Tcoupitoulas Byrd Song" and most of the "TetraMnemosyne" trios, it's a potent mix. Which is the one problem I have with the recording of this new quartet. You mention its intensity, and in some ways it is intense. But there's still slightly too much 'poise' and an evenness to the perf. There's a kind of boxing dance, fake and jab that needs to show up more strongly across the board. They don't have to be heavy; more just sharp and above all *sure*. I think part of that feeling comes from the jazz/blues root elements you've absorbed, which can be a difficult thing for players without that background to feel and use intuitively.

[Harriter88-aka terry harrington]

Ken Palmer said:

TOO MUCH COWBELL FOR SURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Moshier said:

I'm so glad you listened...thank you...the 'cowbell' thing really f****** funny...but there's some twisted truth in it

Harriter88-aka terry harrington said:

LOL,Aw c'mon Steve ya can never have too much COWBELL! p.s. really dig your Dorthy Parker song cycle,and that Kali piece had me rolling with joy.

[Nigel Keay]

Thanks to all for the comments on the quartet's performance of Jeff's String Qurtet No.5. Just to give a little bit of background on this particular performance, rehearsals didn't get underway until very close to the concert date as one of the players was recuperating from a broken finger, and had been slowly easing back into playing. During the concert itself, that took place in a 200-seat hall with a nice natural reverb, but, with only single glazing to the outside, some people out there somewhere decided to have a spontaneous party with some sort of ghetto-blaster; if you listen carefully at the start you'll hear it in the quiet sections. It was certainly a bit of a distraction for us but we survived that one, and the noise eventually went away. Fortunately not too much comes onto the recording as the mics were directional.

I do have somewhat a conflict of interests as performer versus composer-performer. For example, if it's not my own music in question I would consider whether my performance is a good indication of how I can play and want to be represented, then make the decision about letting the recording be heard on that basis. Where I'm playing my own music, and the recording might be the only or best available, my interests as a performer will usually be subjugated to the interests of letting the composition being heard. In the case of playing Jeff's quartet, it was the reflex of the composer part of composer-performer kicking in to say that the important thing here was to let the quartet be heard as I'm not really sure when i might be able to organise the next performance of this Quartet. Although I hope that this recording helps and encourages other groups to perform it.

In terms of influences and comparisons to other composer's works, none of the other players mentioned anything much at all there, there wasn't so much time anyway to dwell on that aspect. Someone simply stated they thought it was well-written. I'd read the programme note in advance but can't say it made me contemplate Beethoven on playing it. As for Steve's comment on the evenness, that's noted and I'd bear it in mind to consider in future performances, alhough maybe the comparison with DeltaBandResonator is hard on the quartet as piano is capable of so much more contrast with accents; at a loud dynamic there's still plenty of leeway for accenting. Obviously piano has a much more extreme dynamic range, not that strings can't achieve contrast. We would have to bring down the base dynamic at times to bring out what I think Steve is getting at.

[Steve Moshier]

I don't care what anyone says: The quartet performance is 'superb' given the enormous constraints! BRAVO!

Nigel Keay said:

Thanks to all for the comments on the quartet's performance of Jeff's String Qurtet No.5. Just to give a little bit of background on this particular performance, rehearsals didn't get underway until very close to the concert date as one of the players was recuperating from a broken finger, and had been slowly easing back into playing. During the concert itself, that took place in a 200-seat hall with a nice natural reverb, but, with only single glazing to the outside, some people out there somewhere decided to have a spontaneous party with some sort of ghetto-blaster; if you listen carefully at the start you'll hear it in the quiet sections. It was certainly a bit of a distraction for us but we survived that one, and the noise eventually went away. Fortunately not too much comes onto the recording as the mics were directional.

I do have somewhat a conflict of interests as performer versus composer-performer. For example, if it's not my own music in question I would consider whether my performance is a good indication of how I can play and want to be represented, then make the decision about letting the recording be heard on that basis. Where I'm playing my own music, and the recording might be the only or best available, my interests as a performer will usually be subjugated to the interests of letting the composition being heard. In the case of playing Jeff's quartet, it was the reflex of the composer part of composer-performer kicking in to say that the important thing here was to let the quartet be heard as I'm not really sure when i might be able to organise the next performance of this Quartet. Although I hope that this recording helps and encourages other groups to perform it.

In terms of influences and comparisons to other composer's works, none of the other players mentioned anything much at all there, there wasn't so much time anyway to dwell on that aspect. Someone simply stated they thought it was well-written. I'd read the programme note in advance but can't say it made me contemplate Beethoven on playing it. As for Steve's comment on the evenness, that's noted and I'd bear it in mind to consider in future performances, alhough maybe the comparison with DeltaBandResonator is hard on the quartet as piano is capable of so much more contrast with accents; at a loud dynamic there's still plenty of leeway for accenting. Obviously piano has a much more extreme dynamic range, not that strings can't achieve contrast. We would have to bring down the base dynamic at times to bring out what I think Steve is getting at.

[Nigel Keay]

There's been questions recently on a couple of string-players forums about what music is suitable for a young quartet, so I've mentioned this quartet. In one case Beethoven op.18 was suggested several times. If a young group could do a good job of an op.18, then Jeff's #5 should really be well possible, op.18 can be quite tricky in any case.

[Nigel Keay]

I'm currently overseeing project that involves a quartet comprised of three present and past members of the Southbank Sinfonia (Eugene Lee, Charmian Keay & Joe Ichinose) with Parisian cellist Gabriel Casalis. Last week they launched into a first reading/session on this quartet and all went very smoothly. On this occasion I enjoyed sitting back and listening from a distance (to a different view on the work).

[Jeff Harrington]

Interesting news Nigel! Thanks for posting... :)

Nigel Keay said:

I'm currently overseeing project that involves a quartet comprised of three present and past members of the Southbank Sinfonia (Eugene Lee, Charmian Keay & Joe Ichinose) with Parisian cellist Gabriel Casalis. Last week they launched into a first reading/session on this quartet and all went very smoothly. On this occasion I enjoyed sitting back and listening from a distance (to a different view on the work).